Thread 'Let's talk politics'
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 Jord Send message Joined: 29 Aug 05 Posts: 15998 
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Between 1,500 and 2,000 people had entered in the last 10 days, with an estimated 1,500 extra on Thursday. Ceuta doesn't have the manpower or even territory to house that many 'immigrants'. They're apparently also not sent back. So eventually they'll be sent to the Spanish mainland, and from there it's an easy travel to England or Ter Apel in the Netherlands. |
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Jord Send message Joined: 29 Aug 05 Posts: 15998
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In reply to Dave's message of 30 Jul 2026: Must be some new definition of, "Europe" I wasn't previously aware of.Shall we no longer call Gibraltar Europe then either? It's the same thing, an enclave in another country. So any immigrant entering Ceuta and Melilla are automatically in Spain, meaning Europe and the European Union. |
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Dave Send message Joined: 28 Jun 10 Posts: 3408 
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UK is part of the continent of Europe. suggesting Ceuta is part of Europe as opposed to Africa is geographically illiterate. |
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Jord Send message Joined: 29 Aug 05 Posts: 15998
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Ceuta (UK: /ˈsjuːtə/, US: /ˈseɪuːtə/,[7][8] Spanish: [ˈθewta, ˈsewta] ⓘ; Moroccan Arabic: سَبْتَة, romanized: Sabtah) is an autonomous city of Spain on the North African coast. Bordered by Morocco, it lies along the boundary between the Mediterranean Sea and the Atlantic Ocean. Ceuta is one of the special territories of members of the European Economic Area.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceuta |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 23 Feb 08 Posts: 2591 
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In reply to Jord's message of 30 Jul 2026: In reply to Dave's message of 30 Jul 2026:I believe the word is "exclave". |
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Jord Send message Joined: 29 Aug 05 Posts: 15998
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In reply to Gary Charpentier's message of 31 Jul 2026: In reply to Jord's message of 30 Jul 2026:Yes, I learned that distinction today as well. Enclave is on all sides bordered by another country, an exclave is partially bordered. Meanwhile estimates run from 50,000 to 80,000 people who illegally entered Ceuta and Melilla yesterday. The border is completely collapsed with the Spanish Government showing no signs of wanting to do anything about it. Other countries in the European union have said already to (temporarily) kick Spain out of the Schengen pact, as when it stays in, these people can travel on to other countries within the EU without papers and problems. |
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Dave Send message Joined: 28 Jun 10 Posts: 3408
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So far, despite a new record for the year in the number of people crossing from France to UK in small boats, the numbers are 42% down on the same period last year. I would guess that unless countries bordering Spain do change the goalposts, those numbers will shortly be going up as one of the reasons for the reduction is the EU's work to reduce the numbers coming in through various routes. Some of that 42% is likely due to French police action on the beaches that UK has funded and also work in Germany where one seizure took boats capable of carrying over 2,000 people out of the system. |
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Jord Send message Joined: 29 Aug 05 Posts: 15998
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Why the need to downplay what is essentially an open tap with no one (in politics) interested to get a handle on it? Spain just allowed over 500,000 illegal immigrants to become legal, get papers, travel the Schengen pact. Where do you think they go to? Those places where there's a lot to gain, without effort. My backyard. Because my government is all mouth but doesn't do anything about it. All our municipalities are now forced to open local asylum seekers' centers to spread the inflow of asylum seekers over the whole country, the "spreidingswet". Spreading the criminals who rape and steal and stab and kill all over the country, what could possibly go wrong? This government promised at the elections that if municipalities would help them out with spreading these people, they would get the inflow down. The inflow has only gone up. I'm not worried. I know those 500,000 will come northwards. I know the 80,000 that invaded Ceuta and Melilla the past days will come northwards. Because they always do. And because we can't get rid of the safe country nationals, their countries of origin are happy to have gotten rid of them, they don't want them back. But there's no need to downplay the numbers. Oh, inflow is 42% down when compared to last year. Those 58% coming into your country illegally are still 58% too many. Will you also post when numbers are up by 175%? What did the veterans of WW2 fight for? |
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Dave Send message Joined: 28 Jun 10 Posts: 3408
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I agree that the 58% is too many just as the four who drowned yesterday or the day before is too many. Spreading the criminals who rape and steal and stab and kill all over the country, what could possibly go wrong?How many criminals doing this are illegal immigrants compared to home grown criminals? In UK every time an immigrant commits one of these crimes it is front page news in the Right Wing press. When such an offence is committed by a home grown white criminal, it isn't mentioned despite the fact that the overwhelming majority of such crimes are committed by home grown criminals. I am not trying to minimise the issue. One person coming here illegally and committing one of those crimes is too many. I agree that the 58% is too many just as the four who drowned yesterday or the day before is too many. Right now, our government is making gaining citizenship much more difficult though I doubt that will affect the number of illegal immigrants. I would advocate UK having centres where those seeking asylum have a legal way to do it alongside getting tougher on those who come illegally. I haven't followed the news on the over half a million closely or read much about it yet. I can't imagine that happening without some organisation or orchestration using social media. I just had a quick look and couldn't find anything about that aspect of it. I note that because Morocco does not recognise Spain's ownership of the territories they are unlikely to see it as a problem, though a Spanish spokesperson does say the Moroccan authorities are cooperating to prevent further large scale incursions. |
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Jord Send message Joined: 29 Aug 05 Posts: 15998
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In reply to Dave's message of 31 Jul 2026: How many criminals doing this are illegal immigrants compared to home grown criminals?What do you mean by home grown criminals? Gen pop? Here the numbers say 3 to 4% of asylum seekers are criminally active. Meaning they steal, do vandalism, violent crimes, disturb public order. And most of them are from Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia with no possibility for a permit. Syrians are high in crime numbers as well, mostly violent crime, killings. Our police do not accept or process most of the reports, which brings down the statistics. 3 to 4% criminal numbers is the same number for our general population after correction for age and sex. And no, these numbers are not available anymore based on racial ethnicity. |
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Jord Send message Joined: 29 Aug 05 Posts: 15998
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On another topic, Boy George posted his song "We will dance again" on X and YouTube: Boy George shows amazing support for Israel by releasing song about October 7th 2023 Since that time, he's been cancelled: "Boy George has been pulled out of the upcoming production of Jesus Christ Superstar following his recent song standing up for Jews." He himself says on the subject: So many people are calling me and saying I should pipe down and let it blow over and while they mean well I'm afraid it's not an option. |
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Dave Send message Joined: 28 Jun 10 Posts: 3408
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I don't agree with his politics, but neither do I think he should have been pulled from the production. If individuals want to boycott his shows and not buy his work because of his politics, that is their choice and I support it. I would never buy a Tesla because I don't like Musk's politics. (Actually unless i win the lottery i couldn't afford one anyway, my boycotting Tesla because of politics is in practice limited to the Powerwall. Not that he would ever notice my refusal to buy his products. |
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